Dr. Dacher Keltner is widely recognized as a leading scholar in the study of emotion and directs the Berkeley Social Interaction Lab.

Transmission 241: Interview with Dacher Keltner

Dr. Dacher Keltner is recognized as a leading scholar in the study of emotion and directs the Berkeley Social Interaction Lab. He teaches psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, where his research focuses on human emotion, particularly in areas related to compassion, awe, power, and social connection. As the founding director of the Greater Good Science Center, he has helped bridge the gap between advanced psychological research and practical resources for fostering empathy and well-being.

Keltner’s work integrates concepts from evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, and cultural studies to investigate how emotions influence moral life, interpersonal connections, and societal structures. His extensive research addresses the biological and evolutionary origins of positive emotions such as compassion, awe, love, and beauty, as well as the dynamics of power, social class, and inequality. He has contributed to a deeper understanding of how emotions shape social interactions and social hierarchies. His research demonstrates that compassion and selflessness can increase positive influence within social groups, positioning power as a potential force for good.

Keltner’s scholarship has had applications in fields such as business, healthcare, and education. He served as the scientific advisor for Pixar’s film Inside Out and has consulted for companies including Google, Apple, Facebook, and Pinterest on topics related to emotion and well-being. He is also a co-founder of the UC Berkeley Center for the Science of Psychedelics and hosts the podcast The Science of Happiness.

He has authored several influential books, including Born to Be Good: The Science of a Meaningful Life, The Power Paradox: How We Gain and Lose Influence, and Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life. He has also co-edited The Compassionate Instinct: The Science of Human Goodness and The Gratitude Project. Keltner has received numerous awards for his research and teaching and is a member of the American Academy of Arts & Sciences. He is also active in the education of health care providers and judges.

Dacher Keltner’s official site | Berkeley

Your research focuses on the biological and evolutionary origins of compassion, wonder, love, beauty, emotional expression, power, social class and inequality. When and how did you decide that you wanted to specialise in this field? Was it something that intrigued you since childhood?

My parents, a teacher and artist, got me interested in the passions, in beauty, and social justice, and then learning of the tools of psychological science and Darwin’s thinking about the evolution of emotion inspired me to do this work.

The history of human collective evolution highlights also harmonious communication, yet emotional growth often stagnates, with practices like humiliation, gaslighting, and overcontrol persisting. Could you share with us how the understanding of compassion and empathy’s role in fostering growth and motivation has evolved? In your research, how has the understanding of power dynamics evolved in relation to compassion and empathy?

Some 50 years ago we were in the era of selfish genes, fight or flight physiology, and a focus on emotions like anger, fear, and disgust.  Evolution was largely thought to have created humans as hyper competitive, gratification machines, and altruism was readily explained away.  Since that time, we have learned how important caregiving and kindness are for our survival, health, and reproduction, and that empathy is essential to rising in the ranks.  My work on power dynamics got me interested in how the privileges of holding power might corrupt our capacities for kindness, empathy, and altruism, which we have found is true.

Menemius Agrippa likened social order to a human body, while Gregor Mendel had intuited about connections between individuals through genetics. Though both perspectives hold truth, social roles, environment, and genetics remain divisive topics. From your perspective, what are the most counterintuitive dynamics in the relationship between social, environmental, and genetic factors?

I believe it is counterintuitive that 40% of our mental life in the form of emotions and deep beliefs and preferences, from who we like politically to the music that moves us, is shaped by our genetic inheritance from our family lineage, and that our deepest tendencies toward compassion, beauty, love, and morality have strong heritabilities.  At the same time, what is counterintuitive to many is how profoundly a person’s social class influences those very processes.

What can you tell us about awe in a world where many often confuse it with simple wonder? How do you see the connection between the experience of awe and the promotion of collective social responsibility?  

Awe is the feeling of being amazed at vast mysteries; wonder is the cognitive state that is suffused with curiosity that follows experiences of awe.  We have learned that we can feel awe frequently, that it is good for our stress, body, and sense of connection and purpose, and that we can find it in the eight wonders of life — nature, music, art, moral beauty, collective effervescence, spirituality, big ideas, and life and death.  At its core, awe is a collective, community building emotion, and it motivates us to be stronger members of collectives. 

Can awe be cultivated intentionally in personal daily lives, or is it something people must encounter unexpectedly? What role does awe play in mental health, particularly in helping individuals manage stress or trauma?  

Yes. You can cultivate awe readily, and studies are finding this is true simply by… contemplating a person of moral beauty to you, or looking at a beautiful nature scene, or listening to music… or… and awe reduces stress, inflammation, depression, and loneliness, and heightens a sense of community.

Do you see a connection between experiencing awe and fostering collective social responsibility? 

 YES.  Awe makes us share more, feeling more devoted to our collectives, define ourselves in terms of collectives, and engage in acts that are good for groups and the environment.

Your work connects psychology and aspects of spirituality. How do you address potential conflicts or harmonies between these realities? What parallels do you see between the effects of awe and those of spiritual practices such as meditation or prayer? 

I believe our sense of spirituality has physiological roots that are meaningful and shaped by our evolutionary history, and that feelings of awe are a central pathway by which spiritual practices, like meditation, prayer, dance, and song bring us a sense of transcendence. 

How do you think awe influences creativity, particularly in artistic or performance contexts? Can you share an example of a work of art or performance that has personally inspired awe in you?

Awe leads us to think outside of the box and in original ways.

Art that brought awe to me are so numerous, and include: Van Gogh, Gerhard Richter, Virginia Woolf, Dostoevsky’s The Brothers Karamazov, Murakami, Pete Docter’s films, the films of Wim Wenders, and Iggy Pop and the Beatles and Sona Jobarteh.

Are there any unexplored areas in the study of awe and compassion that you think researchers should prioritise? How do you envision the application of awe research in education, healthcare, or technology in the next decade? 

Research needs to examine how to cultivate awe in health care settings.  I look forward to more awe focused education, which is happening, and hope that awe makes its way into medicine, which is sorely needed.  I hope there is more awe focused technology, but when I look at what Meta, or Instagram does, I don’t have much faith. In our research, people rarely if ever say they find awe in a technological experience. 

You have collaborated with Pixar directors, including Pete Docter, on his films Inside Out and Soul, and served as a consultant on Inside Out 2. Could you share any meaningful anecdotes from this collaboration? How can  young people and adults be guided to embrace their emotions and experiences as helpful rather than burdensome?

So many anecdotes…

That for Inside Out Pete and I fought for Sadness to be the hero of the story.

that in Inside Out II we encouraged the panic attack scene to be more intense to teach young people it’s ok to experience panic.

And so many lessons about storytelling, that life is about relationships, and kindness, and seeking to understand others.

Photos courtesy of Dacher Keltner

Topics: emotion research, awe psychology, compassion science, social connection, empathy research, power dynamics, Greater Good Science Center, Inside Out Pixar, emotion and society, biological origins of emotion, evolutionary psychology, positive emotion research

Dominique Musorrafiti

Ciao! My name is Dominique. I’m Italian and I’m proud to be a mix. My father was an Italian chemical engineer and high school teacher, with Greek and Polish heritage. My mother is Haitian, she was high school language teacher, with Dominican, Spanish, French, Portuguese, African and Native American heritage. Being a mix makes me appreciate to want to understand different cultures and lifestyles. I grew up in Italy, lived few years in Haiti, travel around main European capitals, lived many years in China, in Spain and UK. Traveling makes me feel that we can learn something from every situation in every part of the world.